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Covered, yet 'checked out' by perverse men Print E-mail
By AFIFA JABEEN | Saudi Life
Sunday, 04 July 2010 10:50
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hijabed-women

I NEVER imagined a usual weekend trip to Danube in Jeddah would end up infuriating me to the extent that it almost made me feel sorry for myself for being a woman. While I am not new to sundry men throwing their most “charming” smiles and lustful glances at me or any of the women accompanying me outside, what amazes me is how all of this works when the woman is: a. wearing Hijab; b. doesn’t lift her head to even glance at the passersby; and c. strictly minding her business.

My plight started when I stepped out of my apartment and, along with my mother and sister, walked down to a nearby souk. Cars stopped before us and honked to disrupt the otherwise tranquil locality of ours as we made our way to the market. While at the market, the two or three seconds that are consumed in hopping from one shop to another were torturous as I could feel a plethora of gazes from all sides gathering on me and my company in these brief moments. A storekeeper of South Asian nationality paused for a good few seconds before entering the store and when he did, I noticed he still hadn’t got his eyes off the three abaya-clad figures that were scampering from one store to another.

Next stop: Danube. Here again, it was an extremely uncomfortable period as after I was done I stood waiting for my company at the corner-most corner of the supermarket, where I wrongly thought I would be spared of all the usual gawking and ogling. Now I was tired of looking at the floor, done with looking at the Danube brochure over and over again and even tried looking like a snob staring at my mobile phone for no reason and punching buttons pretending to be doing something very important just to avoid looking at anyone. Quick, make me disappear or at least shrink, I thought! And as if the best was still to come, on our way back home (a five-minute ride), we were chased by a car filled with five to six Saudi boys sending out flying kisses in our direction.

Finally I was home feeling miserable. It was one of those times when I thought that I was a liability to my family, who have to face all the embarrassment because of me when we are out together. This is just one of the few reasons why I have stopped going to certain crowded places, like markets, etc. with my parents. But that clearly is not the solution.

"Tell the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

And tell the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty…" (Quran 24:30-31).

While the society thinks it’s doing its job by telling women to cover themselves up and guard their modesty, I feel it has taken a more lenient stand towards men. How many times are men told about their conduct towards women on the street as opposed to women being told about Hijab? Not many. 

Refrain I will from being preachy but here’s an interesting read on practical tips to lower your gaze.

I have done my Hijab, have my gaze protected and yet I ask: What more should I do to achieve a happy and secure weekend outing?
 

Comments  

+6 Faraz 2010-07-04 11:28 #
This thing needs immediate action, else Saudi Arabia will become like societies where women are regularly sexually harassed.
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+4 Trae 2010-07-04 11:36 #
the sad thing is hear i use to cover according to saudi custom and because they saw a white hand or heard an English accent come out they would always harass me, in the end a friend told me , don't cover your hair, because you are blond, they will think your American and be to scared to bother you. low and behold i haven't covered now for at least 7 years and i am totally left alone. Where is the respect for your sisters??
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0 Faraz 2010-07-04 11:46 #
The increasing perverseness in Muslim societies is quite sad. The way it's going I feel it won't be long enough for women to be physically groped, molested and assaulted as they are regularly harassed in other societies. Saudi Arabia was so much purer. Crime is now increasing. may Allah protect it. Khair.

Your article is masha Allah v good. I don't know if anyone has told you, but I would do so only to let you know how you could actually put off all this "attention".

Had you been living in a society that was open and much more shameless, your dress would have been a sign of respect as it would have been more conservative than theirs and no one would have done that. However, you are living in Saudi Arabia, where it is mandatory for all women to wear the abaya. So how do perverse men/boys go after the kind of girls they are looking for? They look for some signs. Modern Abayas, flashy, cut that shows the dress worn inside, long legs and jeans that appear from those cuts, exposed hair, small scarfs or no scarfs, no niqab plus make up and all that.

I am telling you this just so you could be aware of the mentality of men. They think any woman who wears a dress that is, let's say for the lack of a decent word, "bold" according to the standards of a society, is someone ... ahh well. You get my point. (contd.)
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+1 Faraz 2010-07-04 11:47 #
This is definitely wrong and their actions cannot be justified. One cannot judge a woman's intentions. I remember when we'd started the discussion on SL's FB page (old one) regarding boys chasing girls and girls vice versa in malls, there was this American lady who embraced Islam sharing how in America before she embraced Islam she would be groped and they would do nasty things to get her attention. But after she embraced Islam and she wore her hijab, people would give way to her. She was saying how she much happier married to a Saudi and raising her daughters here.

The point is even though she wore very immodest clothes before Islam, she didn't want what the men thought was OK to do! She hated it. She was not the filthy person. Her immodest dressing was a mere product of the society.

Here in Saudi Arabia, people come from all over the world. Everyone may not be aware of hijab or the guidelines of hijab. So, it is extremely unfair to judge the women's character based on her clothing. But this is exactly what the men do everywhere. And this is why the hijab is there.

There is absolutely no doubt that the minds of perverse men are sick -- it doesn't matter if he appears to be cool and modern i.e. Westerner who has access to many girls anyway and knows how to deal with them or he is a perverse man who doesn't have access to women. I'll write an article on that some day insha Allah to give women a glimpse of that mentality...

Khair, the point is: Try wearing a conservative Jilbab. A loose-fitting, plain one that doesn't "reveal", with a longer scarf. And when you are out to a place that you know you would come across such "men", wear a niqab too. I think most of your problem should be solved that way insha Allah.
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+2 Abu Mussab 2010-07-04 12:09 #
While the believing men and the believing women were commanded to lower their gaze, there is an extra step that a sister has to undertake in order to really protect herself from the eyes of those who don't fear Allaah (by staring at women). Most of us are aware that there are obligatory conditions for the Islaamic Hijaab. Yes, indeed, the picture above says it all. The hijaab is not something that just covers the skin. It should also be loose so as not to show the shape of the body. It shouldn't be attractive thus calling the people around to "Look at me!!!" Think of the wisdom and the logic, had the sister been wearing a big, loose khimaar, and if she has a really pretty face, top it off with a niqaab, then the fitnah may be avoided. She may be stared at (if she's in a country where the proper hijaab is not followed), out of curiosity of her being "strange," but at least it's not out of LUST.
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+2 Kellergirl 2010-07-10 14:13 #
I am SICK and tired of women being blamed for men's shortcomings. Even if I am dressed in tight clothing, it is the man's CHOICE on how he reacts to me. Does all this mean that men are mentally weak, and unable to control themselves? Geez, get real. They are grown men, they can control themselves. They are just looking for something or someone to blame when they cannot control their eyes.
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+1 MohammadKhan 2010-07-17 17:34 #
"Even if I am dressed in tight clothing,"

If you are dressed in tight clothing, you are disobeying a direct command of Allaah. Allaah knows the nature of men and women better than you or I ever can, and has commended us in accordance to His knowledge, wisdom and mercy.
Imagine if one day someone hung all his precious and valuable possessions outside his house, and somebody stole them the next day. Would you only blame the thief, or would you also blame the careless person who did not protect his possessions?
The same way, in front of Allaah, a woman is also to blame if she does not cover herself properly after having knowledge of His commands. Muslim women should be thankful to Allaah for showing them what to do to protect themselves, imagine the problems and harrassment kaafir women have to face in kaafir countries, simply because they do not know what Allaah has commanded them to do. May Allaah guide them and us to the straight path.
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+1 Kellergirl 2010-07-17 17:58 #
I AM NOT responsible for the actions of a weak man. If he cannot control himself, that IS NOT my problem. There could be a naked man walking down the street. If I choose to look, it is MY fault, not his. We choose how we react to situations. Don't play the blame game.
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+4 Kellergirl 2010-07-17 18:00 #
And by the way, I WOULD blame the thief. Just because it is there, does not mean I have to steal it. Take responsibility for your actions. Many Muslim men are just looking to blame their lack of control on women.
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+1 Faraz 2010-07-17 18:27 #
How about both sharing the blame? No one is absolving the blame on men, Keller. Culprits do need to be punished.
Go ahead blame the thief, but the loss would be yours if you don't protect your wealth. Go ahead blame the weak man, but the loss would again be yours. All men will never be righteous, just as all women won't be too. And BTW this is not restricted to Muslim men.
Men have weaknesses. This is their weakness. Women's prime adornment is their beauty. Just why else has the image of women been so heavily sexualized in the media? Just why are women supposed to dress "sexy" and expose, while men are not? Is this not really exploitation of women and turning them into objects of gratification?

These are questions one needs to sincerely ask. Apart from that, one needs to ask if there is God's guidance on these matters? Has the Creator who knows us said something and revealed us a way of life or has He left us without guidance?

Anyways, I see your point. All the best
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0 MohammadKhan 2010-07-20 13:00 #
If a man is naked on the street, he is already blameworthy... why you ask?
Well let me put it in very simple words:
----Anyone who knowingly disobeys Allaah is blameworthy----. That is, unless the person is not physically able, is retarded, has not reached puberty, or life is at stake, and maybe some other exceptional circumstances.

"And by the way, I WOULD blame the thief."

I would blame the criminal too, but I would also blame the person if he has been warned by Allaah, and commanded to do otherwise, but still disobeyed Him.
Please forgive me if I was not clear in my previous comment.
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+2 Marvin 2010-07-30 07:34 #
Kellergirl is correct. Additionally, many of us has to realise that Islam has trained many into thinking aloong certain lines. So men who look at women because of their apparel - the scholars will cast blame on the women because they most times forget that the innate being of a man is to be attracted to a woman...that's just how it is!! However, these gaping men also need to remember their respect for women. Additionally, ALL women living in the muslim kongdom of the world should rememeber they are no longer in the west and should refrain from livinf as such. According to the old saying" when in Rome, act as the Romans do".
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-4 Abu Ilyas 2010-07-30 19:01 #
Men and women are both commanded to lower their gazes. But if the woman is wearing a flashy abaya, it is her fault for attracting the gaze of the man. However, if the man purposefully ogles like what seemed to happen in the case of the article writer, then it is HIS fault. So you see, the placing of the blame depends on the situation; sometimes it's women, sometimes men.
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+6 Reem 2010-07-19 16:33 #
MohammadKhan,

soooooooooorrry yyyyy

KSA as a society constantly disproves your view that if a woman is harassed she has nobody to blame but herself.

Every damn day, I see it happening. A woman who barely has make-up on and has her hair covered, with a loose Abaya on, is harassed and stared at like she's walking about naked.

Sorry, MKhan, doesn't cut it anymore. It's sad actually, that Saudi men are not educated to RESPECT the other gender and think of her as equal in standing, brains, and deserving of respect. Instead of looking at a woman and seeing a ....., well, it goes to show how men here are brought up, and it's sad that the emphasis on respecting the other is nowhere to be seen. All I see is emphasis on the woman to 'cover-up'.

I am not saying that all non-Saudis are actually brought up to respect women, and that it's all the Saudi man's fault and the way they are brought up...I am saying an emphasis on respecting the other is needed, and this is something embodied in our religion, but we keep forgetting it.

A man experiences KSA in a drastically different manner than a woman does, culturally, societal expectations....so it's natural for men not to understand where women are coming from, and they always assume the worst.

Enough said, if it weren't for King Faisal we'd all still be sitting at home being financially dependent on men.
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0 MohammadKhan 2010-07-20 13:11 #
you wrote: "your view that if a woman is harassed she has nobody to blame but herself."

If you read my comment again carefully you will realize that is not what I said at all. Generally the man is blameworthy, and so is the woman.

Again, many people don't realize how much we should thank Allaah for giving us Islam. AlhamduliLlaah, unlike the poor Kaafirs, may Allah guide them too, we know what to do to please Him and avoid the pain and suffering that many people who follow their desires experience.
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+9 R 2010-07-04 12:50 #
Excellent article..very true. This is something I have experienced myself when I used to walk to work from my place (it was a 5-7 minute walk)..during which I invariably managed to acquire 'escorts' who would cruise along at my pace, drivers who would honk and flash lights to attract attention etc.

Btw, I wear a niqaab, socks and a really loose, tent-like ra'si abaya ..so the argument that wearing proper Hijaab will cure the problem doesn't ring true.
Clearly, the problem lies elsewhere -- in diseased hearts, corrupted through hours of exposure to Haraam on the internet and TV, lack of proper tarbiyah (upbringing) since usually the emphasis is on merely maintaining an appearanceof piety as opposed to striving with sincerity, double standards, hypocrisy, lack of communication between youngsters and community leaders (Imaams, da'yahs), lack of role models ...

The harassment of women is just a symptom of these problems that must be addressed before things get worse..

that said, KSA is still a fitnah-free haven when compared to many other places and I pray that it remains that way, iA.
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+1 Faraz Omar 2010-07-04 13:14 #
Excellent comment by R, baarak Allahu feek. We need to develop solutions on those lines if we seriously want to curb this perverseness.
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+5 Iqra 2010-07-04 14:19 #
I think all women living in Saudi Arabia have gone through the the frustrating events mentioned in this article. The funny part is the more you lower your gaze & ignore it the worse it gets. So I suggest you ladies switch to the offensive mode, one look of anger & disgusted has always helped me get rid of such jerks. And trust me such guys are very weak at heart the moment they sense that this lady wont take the crap they back off pretty fast! Always have a look on your face 'mess with me & you get hell !'
A word of caution ignore a group and never get close for your own safety.
But never give the impression with your gait or gestures that you are weak and will take anything thrown your way. Wall with your head held high without making eye contact with anyone & if you have too make it as cold as possible.

This is how I have learnt to survive on the Saudi roads and Allahumdulillah havent had any such incidents since quite sometime. Oh and if you're a Muslim lady keep reciting the Ayat Al Kursi works wonders.

And to all those men who advise women to go even deeper under layers of clothes rather than advice their fellow men should be man enough to come to the aid of women when they see such things happening on the road instead of driving of as if its not their business.
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-3 Sis in Islaam 2010-07-04 14:46 #
People just have to return to the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. BIG PROCESS right there, Allaahu'l musta'an.
Sister Iqra, please don't judge the brother for "advising the women to go even deeper under layers of clothes." There's a lecture available on YouTube (titled: The POISONED ARROW) directed for the men! And it wasn't til a year later that a lecture regarding the sisters' dresscode was delivered by the same speaker. And as per his comment, the lowering of the gaze was mentioned first(as it was in the Qur'aan), and what's wrong with advising the sisters who don't dress properly (as seen in the picture)to do so?
Baaraka'allaahu feeki and may Allaah pardon us for our shortcomings.
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+5 Ali Shah 2010-07-04 14:53 #
I agree with Iqra. Just do this: The man that harasses you, SLAP HIS FACE and MAKE NOISE!.. You need to be aggressive and not get victimized. Also, do not go during the evening, go in broad daylight. All the shayateen are out at night ( FACT)..
In Pakistan, NO ONE DARES to bother women: 1. It is an open society where women are FREE, they drive and do their own things. No one is DEPRIVED.
2. No man wants to get humiliated on the street. And they will be beaten up by everyone if they bother a woman and she shouts.

I have defined over and over again the main reason why men are so perverted here ( you can read on my blog www.alshah40.wordpress.com " Labor: why are they so perverted".. THough it is not limited to that class.. perversion is because marriage in KSA is difficult for everyone, media is open and society is closed! The way men and women are segregated is ABNORMAL, they still have not figured out what a woman is!!!.. this caveman mentality is because of JAHAL! A man that does not see his father respecting his mother or someone who does not respect the women of his own family ( covering them and hiding them is not respecting them, it is fear of losing face!).. will never respect other women.

Faraz what was that term in arabic? The ignorant believing they are not ignorant? The worse kind of Jahal? Please do write here.

Another tip: I saw this in Bahrain. A bunch of Guys were staring at two girls in a mall, harassing them in fact..( AS USUAL) The two girls took out their cell phones and took their pictures ( FLASH AND ALL) and said they will publish this and give it to police. I have never seen two people run faster out of a mall!..
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+2 kt 2010-11-07 10:16 #
Well Said Ali Shah.

I am appalled at the lack of respect. I always wonder what the mothers and fathers are teaching their sons. You parents of sons, do you teach your sons to respect women no matter what they are wearing? In other countries males and females learn to respect each other in families, neighborhoods and classrooms.The unnatural separation here makes men look at women as only sex objects rather than fellow students, fellow workers, people they can learn from . Also here there is such low expectations of the men obviously. Every time they see a black clad woman they are probably reminded that they are expected by their society to to helplessly lust after her. She is hiding in black - they naturally pursue. The man is reminded by each and every woman who is draped in black for her protection that he is the animal that she needs protection from - so he lives up to it - it is what is expected of him. In a different country the same man would have more manners - he would know the expectations are different. the women will not run and hide so how can he pursue? The woman will expect respect and will get it from any half decent man. In another country a man will respect his mother more, his female bosses, his teachers, his classmates.they are not cowering black clad female objects for man's pursuit - they are human beings that he better deal with properly or there will be consequences.

Ali Shah said...
In Pakistan, NO ONE DARES to bother women: 1. It is an open society where women are FREE, they drive and do their own things. No one is DEPRIVED.
2. No man wants to get humiliated on the street. And they will be beaten up by everyone if they bother a woman and she shouts.

I have defined over and over again the main reason why men are so perverted here ( you can read on my blog www.alshah40.wordpress.com " Labor: why are they so perverted".. THough it is not limited to that class.. perversion is because marriage in KSA is difficult for everyone, media is open and society is closed! The way men and women are segregated is ABNORMAL, they still have not figured out what a woman is!!!.. this caveman mentality is because of JAHAL! A man that does not see his father respecting his mother or someone who does not respect the women of his own family ( covering them and hiding them is not respecting them, it is fear of losing face!).. will never respect other women.

F
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-1 Faraz 2010-11-07 10:26 #
Karen, while this phenomenon does exist, it doesn't mean it is so overwhelmingly rampant or that women are not respected here.

Sexual crimes against women are the least in Saudi Arabia. And while you talk about countries that "respect" women, rapes occur by minutes there.

While the perverts and their mentality are being criticized, we should not forget the immense amount of respect and security a woman gets in Saudi society... and this is one of the unique characteristics that westerners too agree.

A woman can be out at 12 midnight without fear... talk about getting outside after sunset in other countries...
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+2 Muzaffar 2010-07-04 15:28 #
SubhanAllah! Do read the article and see the comments posted by some sisters. Its so disheartening that I felt uncomfortable about sending this to our sisters.
Our "muslim" men seem to think that they are exempt of all Islamic Rulings while they apply only for their female counterparts. Our sisters deserve more respect when they choose to observe Hijab even though their families think otherwise (esp. the men of the family). In such circumstances, it is disgusting to come across such morose behavior especially from Muslim-named men. Why doesn't the Saudi govt. do anything about such illicit behavior?
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0 Sis in Islaam 2010-07-04 15:39 #
"And remind, for indeed, the reminder benefits the believers." Surah Adh-Dhariyat 51:55
BOTH the men and the women need reminders. Perhaps Allaah will change their hearts.
And may Allaah reward the sisters with good for doing their job with covering PROPERLY, and may He protect them from the evil of the society.
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+3 Iqra 2010-07-04 17:06 #
Dear Sis in Islam do you mean to say a women in Saudi Arabia who is covered according to the link you have posted are not harassed ?
Pls read R's comments above she does wear a niqab socks & a vent like abaya & doesnt but still faces harassment. Besides the brothers as usual advice women to cover up, well and good but sister I want to know how many of these brothers have actually intervined and reprimanded the men for behaving in such an unislamic manner.

A Muslim or a Non Muslim woman should feel safe and respected in a Islamic society irrespective of the way she is dressed, and it would be nice to see for a change men going out of their way to see that a fellow man does not dishonour a women in their presence. A man's responsibility towards society does not end by just telling the women to cover up its an easy way out.

Just to advice someone is not enough, Islam is a practical religion so lets get practical.
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-5 M. Huda 2010-07-04 18:03 #
Saudi women are soooooo pretty. What can I say. :D

Oh well, yes I admit, I check out abaya women when they pass sometimes. It's just that they're looking mysterious and exotic, and you know, it arouses my curiosity. Questions arise such as "Do they make jokes and laugh?" "Do they make friends?" "Do they read novels?" "Do they fall in love?"

I mean, Saudi way of life itself make them these women look like a "thing" that we, especially outsider, wondering if they ever think and feel like us human being? And saudi males themselves treating them as if they were a 'thing'.

Sexual harassment happens everywhere in the world, done mostly by maniacs and lower class workers, but in Saudi, it's done by ordinary daily people on the street.
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-2 Hudhud 2010-07-04 18:19 #
Huda,
Women in your family do not wear abaya? Make your wife or sister wear it and see closely. A saudi girl inside the abaya is JUST like them..
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-1 M. Huda 2010-07-04 18:23 #
Quoting Hudhud:
Huda,
Women in your family do not wear abaya? Make your wife or sister wear it and see closely. A saudi girl inside the abaya is JUST like them..


No they don't wear abaya. And.. uh.. I don't think they will :D
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+1 Sis in Islaam 2010-07-04 19:51 #
I believe these sick men do exist, I don't argue that. That’s half of the problem. And of course, there’s no excuse for them to act this way. Perhaps it’s good for sisters to even bring some sand with them and just throw it at those men who insist on looking at “private property.” What do you think Sis? :)

And again, jazaakunna’Alla ahu khayraa to the sisters who do dress properly (minority), and may Allaah increase the likes of them.

To address the second half of the problem, reality check, I’m sure you see it with your own eyes when you go out, and as Bro. Faraz commented: “Modern Abayas, flashy, cut that shows the dress worn inside, long legs and jeans that appear from those cuts, exposed hair, small scarfs or no scarfs, no niqab plus make up and all that.” Just as with the PHOTO above, it’s right, “a picture that says-it-all.” So, BOTH need to be advised, don’t you think?

Now back to the first problem, yes, unfortunately “enjoining the good and forbidding the evil” has been abandoned by many Muslims. (So we’re not only limited to harassment and lowering the gaze, but this includes all other acts of disobedience…sm oking, music, proper dress code and we could go on and on with this). May Allaah also increase the likes of the Brothers (and Sisters) who still practice this abandoned Sunnah. They’re still out there! What’s sad is that not only did Muslims abandon it, but they prevent the Muslims who actually enjoin the good and forbid the evil from doing so. Subhana’Allaah! !! And may Allaah give us the courage and the patience to call the people back to the Sunnah.

We just have to wake up and start working TOGETHER, and not against each other. May Allaah make it easy!
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+2 AFIFA JABEEN 2010-07-05 04:14 #
Thank you for all your comments! I must say they are far more enlightening than the writeup per se. I only wish to give a glimpse into how it is felt to be stared at, ogled at, etc. etc., despite doing all the right Hijab, niqab, (no flashy abaya, no jeans showing, etc.). However, as expected the decision somehow drifts to the usual 'Ways to do Hijab', etc. Nothing wrong with that, only the root cause is somewhere else, as nicely put by Faraz 'perverse minds' of some men.
I sincerely hope the writeup has been taken positively and not as some 'hue & cry' or 'drama' ober a non-issue, as someone pointed out to me (a male of course!)
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+1 saf 2010-07-05 08:59 #
I'm shocked to read some of the responses that even being covered in Saudi style still gets harrassment. As a relatively new expat to Saudi, I was terribly disappointed that I get stares while out in malls, etc. I thought it was because I do not wear all black but seems that these perverts aim at anyone. This is thoroughly disappointing because in a non-Muslim country like Singapore where I'm from, I've never experienced this AT ALL.
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+1 MS 2010-07-05 11:11 #
It is a sad fact that we are "Islamic" outside how ever our hearts are no where near. While it is true that our men are ignorent of surah noor: 24:30 our women do not understand ayah 31.
As pointed in several comments above, the abayas of today are more a fitnah than a protection. The abayas are either flashy and or so open that even an accidental glance reveals what a sister is wearing inside.
One hardly finds a woman who refrains from the tight western dresses. The clothes on display in majority of the outlets have unislamic dresses on dispaly. Just looking at the maniquins puts one to shame imagining that a sister would wear this (even if it be at home...)
Hayaa & iman is more a state of the heart than a peice of cloth worn or a beard grown.

Our newspapers and magazines publish and feed our minds with the day to day lives of fornicating singers, heiresses, actors and actresses. If these adulterers and zani people are idolized by our media it is naive for us to expect that our coming generation will follow Islam or have high character.

We should start by replacing the articles and pictures of these "idols" by Muslim personalities: scholars, scientists, businessmen who should be the ideals and examples for our children to follow.
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+1 ahmed 2010-07-06 03:22 #
An average article about the bad day that the writer had. Not much of points made or impact made by one’s bad experience, except for little heartfelt sympathy which was only good enough for writer that too for a shorter time.

I still wonder why was the writer embarrassed & why was the cry for when writer was following the righteous path ???
The cry should not have been for oneself but for the section of people because of whom one was embarrassed.
The writer should have felt sorry for them at a place of one’s parents as they are the 1 who had to face the consequences for their misbehavior & moreover pay for it in life or life after life.
The writer was expected to have emphasized more on the teachings about the lowering of eyes & as well on the Hijab that men are supposed to do then closing by questioning on what more one girl was supposed to do to have a safe outing next time. (which actually shows the mean side of one)
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-1 ahmed 2010-07-06 03:25 #
Let me try to emphasize on few points below which few of you already made above.

As temperatures soar and sweat pours down our faces this summer, it is essential to remember protecting our eyes, and here I am not talking about wearing sunglasses.
I'm talking about lowering our eyes.
In our culture today, as the temperature increases, so does the amount of exposed skin on people's bodies. (which you can actually notice if you are staying out of Saudi Arabia ), Although this is very distressing and disturbing, it has become a fact of life. Thankfully it’s not the case in here in Saudi. May be forcibly but most of the women in KSA stick to Hijab even in the ongoing hot summers.

IToday,those of us, especially our sisters wearing Hijab, who cover to guard our modesty are seen as strange! (Not speaking about the one in the picture above who is hardly following a proper Hijab)
Yet, covering, not exposing the skin, is also an advice currently being given by the United States Department of Health And Human Services (HHS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
They have sponsored a campaign called "Choose Your Cover", encouraging people to protect themselves from skin diseases.
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0 ahmed 2010-07-06 03:26 #
A Muslim is decent and pure. This means all of his or her body must be decent and pure.
Allah (swt) says us:
"O you who believe! Do not follow Satan's footsteps: if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will command what is shameful and wrong..." (Quran 24:21).

Looking at another man or woman in an indecent manner is following in Satan's footsteps.
It all begins with a lustful glance. Such a glance leads to lustful talk and flirting, then meeting…and we are all aware of what comes next.
Let us stop Satan in his tracks and lower our eyes.
Let us start today, during these hot summer months. Yes, it is very difficult and it takes discipline and faith.
Yet, whenever we struggle to please Allah(swt), He will reward us several times over in this life and the next.

It is truly a Jihad. But, it is a Jihad worth undertaking, and we will be all the better for it.
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0 ahmed 2010-07-06 03:28 #
Some advice from the Quran and Sunnah

Allah (Swt) says..."Tell the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; And Allah(swt) is well acquainted with all that they do.
And tell the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty…" (Quran 24:30-31).

-Lowering the gaze does not mean keeping our eyes constantly on the ground and not looking up at all.
It is turning our faces away when we see a less-than-decently-dressed woman or man walking on the street, shopping mall or for the sake the local Danube center .


Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) further explained to us Allah's command by saying
"…the adultery of the eyes is looking (at [that] which is not allowed)…" (Bukhari, Muslim).

Also, on the authority of Jurayr who said, "I asked the Messenger of Allah(swt) about accidentally looking at something that is not allowed and he said, ‘Turn your eyes away.'" (Muslim).
In another Hadith on the authority of Abu Sa'eed, Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him ) said, "A man should not look at the Awrah of another man, and the woman should not look at the Awrah of another woman…" (Muslim).

Thus, our Prophet even instructed us to lower our gaze when looking at members of the same gender in some cases.
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0 ahmed 2010-07-06 03:29 #
-One common mistake is to think that lowering your gaze is only required upon encountering nakedness and indecency "in the flesh" or in person.
We even needs to lower our eyes even when we see someone fully covering oneself by a proper Hijab as well.
Lowering our gaze must be a practice in our day to day acts.

Further, one also has to avoid going to the public places or anywhere else where One 'll find a plethora of not properly covered men and women.
Lowering your gaze there is virtually impossible. You may turn in one direction, thinking you're home-free, but soon enough you can't even look there.
The same holds true for parks, shopping centers, a local market etc .
While this doesn't mean never going out or taking the kids out to enjoy the slides and see-saws or having barbecues which we often have.

"Never underestimate the power of Dua.
If you feel overwhelmed, one suggested Dua to read is: "Aoutho billahi Sami' il Aleem minash Shaytan ir Rajeem" (see Quran 41:36 for more information).
A translation of this is "I seek the refuge of ALLAH (SWT) who is the Hearer and Who is the Knower from the Shaytan the accursed."

In general, seek refuge in Allah. It has also been suggested to say "La hawla wa la Quwwata illa billah" (there is no power except with Allah). If we sincerely make Dua, Insha Allah, we can succeed in turning our eyes away.
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0 ahmed 2010-07-06 03:31 #
-Also lowering our gaze does not mean being rude or anti-social. One definitely needs a time to go out, have fun, and even make Dawa (inviting others to Islam).

Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) used to present the message of Islam to people that had come for the yearly "Ukaz" festival, which did include unIslamic activities like drinking and gambling.
------------------------------
However, this requires faith, self-control and discipline.
---------------------------------
This must never be used as an opportunity to indulge in these sins.

Nor one must cry for being surrounded by the wrong company & rather use it as an opportunity to bring others on the righteous path that one is following.


May Allah (swt)helps us to follow & obey more than what we speak & hear.

Salamalaikum
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-1 ahmed 2010-07-06 03:54 #
As mentioned above by brother Faraz -----"Try wearing a conservative Jilbab. A loose-fitting, plain one that doesn't "reveal", with a longer scarf. And when you are out to a place that you know you would come across such "men", wear a niqab too. I think most of your problem should be solved that way insha Allah."-------
most of the problems faced by writer & thousands of other sisters will be solved-----However my worry or you can call it as a cry was & is for thousands of our brothers & sisters out there or so called " such 'men' or 'women'" who are not following the righteous path.
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+2 trae 2010-07-06 08:11 #
It amazes me that there are people calling for the women to cover their selves more, this is NOT the answer, the answer is those men who should be punished. this is the whole problem in saudi arabia, men do many things that are wrong but get no punishment
and as for the woman in the photo not being properly covered, some one please explain how.the quran states a woman should be covered and wearin lose fitting clothes, as far as I can see thats what the lady is wearing........
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0 Abu Mussab 2010-07-06 08:52 #
I truly believe that at this point, this article has done way more harm than good. It seems that many unqualified people have no problem issuing verdicts in the Deen of Allaah while having no such qualifications and such places are platform for doing so. I advise everyone to relax. Either say something based on the teachings of Islaam, or refrain from providing what you consider to be solutions, when they are clearly not. @Trae: Where does the Quran mention the loose fitting clothes? And assuming it did, this lady in the picture is wearing a Hijaab?? What do we call then, the lady that it truly covered?
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+3 Faraz 2010-07-06 09:32 #
بسم الله. الحمد لله

Please take it easy everyone. Let me tell you why this flare up is occurring. Not necessarily contradicting views here.

There is an aspect of emotion involved here. Women are hurt by what is happening to them. They are not the immodest kind of women.

The issue being dealt with in this particular post is the perversion in society. And this is not limited to harassment against women. Kids too are no longer as safe as they were before. This topic of perversion needs serious addressing. Du'at and khateebs need to step up here.

So, when such emotionally hurt and harassed women are told to do correct hijab, they go like, what?! You blame me and not the criminals?! Da'ees should have hikmah. Everything has its time and place. Right now, the women are talking only about perversion and harassment. We need to sympathize. This IS an issue that must be focused on.

By giving all focus on hijab in a different topic that is being discussed, women feel that men are just blaming us and they are not bothered about checking this growing social evil of perversion and harassment. I know this is not what some of you intend, but this is the message sent out.

Definitely, I'm sure no one here will deny the growing immodest dresses among girls and boys. But that is another topic. If you feel strongly about it, please write and highlight this social evil and explain what hijab is really about. We'll publish it insha Allah. When it comes as a separate topic, it will be OK and digestible for people.

Right now, try to understand this: Women -- with and without hijab -- are being harassed. Women being stared at is way different than women being harassed. This could happen to your sister tomorrow. What are we going to do about it?
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0 Abu Mussab 2010-07-06 10:04 #
Hikmah is relevant. What is not considered lack Hikmah to some, does not mean that it isn't there for others. It is a little inappropriate and offensive to throw out such statements which undermine advices and contain self-praise. All that was done is providing advice to the people to refrain from issuing verdicts. Further, a comment was made on the clothes of the sister in the picture which suggested that this is the Hijaab per the Quran. We all agree that there is more than one thing to address here and that emotions kicked in for sure. No one is throwing the blame strictly on sisters and freeing the men of responsibility. Besides the lectures delivered on this topic, which some people thought it wasn’t enough, I know brothers who actually scold or reprimand men who look at women right on the spot. Bitter truth is, go to Danube and see how many sisters are dressed properly! Keep it real people. Men need to be advised and sisters need to be also. Bottom line, whenever a sister, who’s not dressed correctly, gets gazed at, she bears a sin equal to that of the man who stared at her since she failed to adhere to the correct dress code. Any sister who is dressed Islaamically(no t like the lady in the picture or even a little better than her), gets gazed at, then the sin falls on the man only and she is not guilty for his actions. How many sisters can actually be categorized under the second kind? Sisters please answer privately with honesty. If you are, then all praise is due to Allaah and may Allaah guide the men who don’t truly fear Him. If not, then it’s time to make a change so that whenever you are gazed at, you’re not sinful and the man is the one to be held accountable in this life and the life to come.
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0 Faraz 2010-07-06 10:34 #
Akhi, every comment need not be right. Yes, she said that. It could be out of not knowing the ruling? Unless people say things, how do we know? So, what is the manner of educating people about hijab? Write an article.

Regarding the picture, as that has been the prime focus now: Please it does not in anyway portray the correct way to do hijab. It only portrays harassment.

Again, I'm not perfect nor is this website perfect. If I have said anything wrong, I seek Allah's forgiveness.
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0 Faraz 2010-07-06 10:55 #
Also it must be added, as Abu Mussab says, it is not fair to think that men don't reprimand men for wrong doing. So, if a brother does come up with advice of hijab, it does not mean he doesn't reprimand men.

Muslim men do have a lot of gheerah and protective jealousy for their sisters.

If one does a little research to see who actually comes to the help of harassed women it will become very clear. Take for example, the blackmailing cases in KSA.

Believing men and women are supporters of each other. So lets not turn against each other or hate one another.
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0 Abu Mussab 2010-07-06 11:57 #
In fairness to all, and so you will know that these issues have been addressed, even though the content may not have been publicized as well, herewith are two lectures...

1) dealing with looking at haraam things/lowering the gaze...
The Poisoned Arrow (www.youtube.com/user/AUMA08#grid/user/97FAFAFBBB87ECEC)

2) addressing the sisters with regards to the hijaab...
Is This Sister Going to Jannah? (www.youtube.com/user/OneWayToParadise#grid/user/FBD480200BBE3B7B)
Baaraka'Allaahu feekum.
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+1 R 2010-07-06 14:00 #
I don't see why the comments are seen as being at cross purposes to each other.. I feel the author's viewpoint and that of the other commenters aren't in opposition to each other, but both of them form the complete picture.

It's a fact that Shaytaan beautifies women and calls attention towards them when they go out -- the solution isn't just to sequester women in their homes and prevent them from going out for genuine reasons, but to enable them to do so in a dignified manner.

It;s true Muslim sisters have the responsibility of dressing and behaving modestly (according to the consensus and understanding of the majority of the scholars -- not just based on their own opinions)

It's also true that Muslim brothers are required to have ghayrah towards their sisters, have protective zeal towards them and generally, love for their sisters in faith what they love for themselves.
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0 Faraz 2010-07-06 14:52 #
Jazaak Allah khair R for giving the complete picture.

Lowering the gaze and the hijab should both be taken together. Ignoring any one would be unjust. We can't and shouldn't see one aspect in isolation of the other.

I may have focused on one side alone. Jazaak Allah khair once again.
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+1 James Roberts 2010-07-06 18:37 #
I hate to say this but it sounds like the covered lady is projecting her own paranoid feelings of being watched.

My experience in some of the finer shopping malls and grocery stores in Riyadh is that if men are ogling the black-cloaked ladies they're doing it so fiendishly subtle a way as to be invisible to the naked eye (no pun intended).

If the author is as covered up as she says--and we have no reason to doubt--what on earth are these supposedly perverse men even looking at? Her lust-provoking sneakers? (And, by the way, is the picture in the article the actual ogled woman? My guess is that it's simply a stock photo used to illustrate the article.)

And why is it that they don't seem to do that sort of thing anywhere else?

Are we to believe that the entire Arab world has gathered just to see her formless black non-figure modestly shuffling into a store?

I can't speak for the story about youths chasing after a car. If accurate, that's certainly to be deplored in the strongest terms.

Either way, one clue as to what's going on might be seen in the Singapore woman's comments. In Singapore the women aren't ogled by perverse men, perhaps because they're not obsessively covered up. In a world where a glimpse of stocking is looked on as something shocking, maybe, just maybe the answer is not in covering up more and chastising those who may glance your way, but in simply trusting in the power of modesty (and five prayers a day).

People want to look at the things they cannot see. If you take away the mystery, you remove the motive to ogle.
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0 Faraz 2010-07-07 00:04 #
Well James, as you said, there is nothing to look at if they are covered. It's only the women who are not are ogled at. A simple visit to any trendy place or mall will tell you that women are quite fashionable and not totally covered up in KSA.

However, covered women too may be harassed in the sense, that when they are walking on the street there could be cars coming up asking if they want a lift.

It's also wrong to say that it's because of covering up that this is happening and to remove it would solve it. The most liberal of societies have the highest crime rate against women. Though not justifying the actions of the abusers, which are definitely deplorable, it must be said that a large percentage of people in countries like the UK agree that women dressing and acting immodestly do take at least some of the blame. In China, 90% say this. And these are facts that I could elaborate and quote if required.

This issue is quite new here.

Yet, one must agree with you that modesty is what is required in both men and women. And sadly perversion and harassment are spreading here due to a variety of reasons..

Though times are changing now, it must be known that the GCC as a whole, and the kingdom in particular, is much much safer for women than the majority part of the world. This is a huge region, not so small as Singapore (which by the way has a huge harassment problem itself, 1 in 2 women are harassed at work, studies say).

If you were to ask any Western woman about the best thing they like about KSA, 9/10 times they will talk about safety. Don't take my word for it. You may research it in various blogs/articles/groups.

Harassment against women is something that hardly any place in the world is free off. It is such a pathetic and sad reality. I can only pray for the safety of women everywhere.
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-2 Abul Haarith 2010-07-06 19:25 #
As Salaamu Alaikum,

It should not come as a surprise in Saudi Arabia. It's not something new either. Perversion has been rampant in the Middle East for a very long time and we know from the Prophet -sallallaahu alaihi wa salam- that one of the greatest of Fitnah to men is the women. Here in Saudi Arabia this is the case more than one can imagine. The perversion is only a symptom of a larger problem. I believe the article on this site about marriage would point in a certain direction. However a part of the problem is with the upbringing in some households.
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-3 Ali Shah 2010-07-07 06:07 #
Salam..

That is what the issue IS!..
Men AND women here have been influenced by a variety of perversions BECAUSE of our perception of marriage and even multiple marriages.. Marriage, and MORE than one marriage.. should be PROMOTED AGGRESSIVELY. That is the only way Perversions and Zina will be minimized. There is NO other logical explanation. No matter how much a woman is covered and no matter how low the gaze of a man is.. the hearts will NOT find rest until men and are women are EASILY available to each other the HALAL WAY!..
But , sadly, Muslims will NOT do that because their concerns to them are GREATER than the Orders of Allah and the SUNNAH of His Messenger Peace and Mercy be Upon Him always..
ASTAGHFURULLAH AL ADHEEM!!
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-1 Abu Ilyas 2010-07-07 14:39 #
What the brother said above is true - Saudis need to get married. As it comes in the hadeeth, that if a good suitor is rejected, great fitnah is going to spread.
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+1 Abu Abdullah 2010-07-08 00:19 #
It is indeed sad and wrong that the sister was harassed in this way. Many of you have made valid comments. In order to limit/minimise a problem such as this a number of things have to be done by BOTH men and women. Please allow me to summarise what you have said and add a few more comments in order to put things into perspective from the Islamic point of view. This will be done in four parts: Part 1 - Lowering the gaze; Part 2 - The Islamic Dress Code; Part 3 - Going out; and Part 4 - Conclusion.

Part 1 - Lowering the gaze. Both men and women are expected to lower their gazes if they come across one another:

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do. (An-Nur 24:30)

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (faces, necks and chests) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful. (An-Nur 24:31)
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+1 Abu Abdullah 2010-07-08 00:20 #
Part 2 - The Islamic Dress Code. Both men and women are expected to dress according to the teachings of Islam so as not to attract undue attention. In summary, both of them are expected to wear non-transparent, loose clothing that sufficiently covers their bodies as prescribed by Islamic law. If the woman goes out of her home, based on evidences from the Qur'an and Sunnah, she is further expected to wear a plain outer garment that covers her head and body and that which doesn't attract attention. Such that nothing shows except that which is apparent, as was mentioned previously in the verse 24:31. What is meant by 'except that which is apparent' is whatever is impossible to hide like the lower part of her inner garments and her outer garment. According to some scholars it is also obligatory for the woman to cover her hands and wear a niqab (face veil) and according to other scholars this is preferrable.

It would appear that it is definitely beneficial for the woman to cover her face and hands and as a result she will certainly attract less attention. Here's an interesting quote narrated by Aishah, the wife of the Prophet: “The riders used to pass by us when we were with the Messenger of Allaah (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) in ihraam. When they came near, each of us would lower her jilbaab from her head over her face, and when they passed by we would uncover (our faces).” As is known to you, insha-Allah, the woman is not allowed to cover her face when she is in a state of ihram, about to perform the Umrah or Hajj - but here the mother of the believers set a good example for the women - in order to avoid being stared at, cover your faces. Incidentally, this is one of the proofs used by the scholars to indicate the obligation upon the woman to cover her face at all times.
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+1 Abu Abdullah 2010-07-08 00:22 #
Part 3 - Going out. This aspect hasn't really been dealt with at all but I do think it's very important. We shouldn't really go out to the shopping centres and the like unless there is a need. There is a saying of the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) in which he stated that the worst of places are the souqs and the best of places are the masajid. Even though the best of places are the masajid, it is still better for the woman to pray in her home, as is mentioned in various proofs. Since the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) stated that the souqs are the worst of places, the woman should be really careful in establishing whether her going out for a need is really a pressing need or not.

This point of not going out is further emphasised with regard to the women in the saying of Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) in the Qur'an:

وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَى

And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance... [Al-Ahzab:33]

This verse, as has been explained by the classical scholars, indicates that the woman shouldn't go out except and unless there is a pressing need for her to go out. This may be difficult for some of you to accept but this is the correct understanding. I think you'll agree, there is great wisdom behind this ruling - it will certainly help to limit problems of this kind.

It makes sense for women that do need to go out, to do so with their mahrams/male guardians at mutually convenient times in order to avoid problems such as these.
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+1 Abu Abdullah 2010-07-08 00:29 #
Part 4 - Conclusion. As I said at the beginning, in order to limit/minimise a problem such as this, a number of things have to be done by BOTH men and women. It follows therefore, that the blame for an incident of this sort should be justly placed on both sexes according to the circumstances.

Perhaps the following will put all of this into perspective. A woman that goes out PROPERLY dressed WITHOUT a pressing need and gets harassed is blameworthy. A man who harasses a woman that is properly dressed or not properly dressed, whether she has gone out for a valid reason or not IS BLAMEWORTHY.

May Allah protect us all. And may Allah make it easy for the men, who are able, to take a more active role in taking care of their families and not rely on drivers and the like so that the women can be accompanied and not just dropped off at shopping malls.


May Allah protect this blessed country and its people/inhabitants from evil and may we see the establishment of more malls etc specifically for women run by women. May Allah make it easy for whoever needs to get married to do so, such that he/she is less likely to fall into sins such as zina of the eyes. May Allah enable us all to take an active part in enjoining the good and forbidding the evil, such as in cases such as this, where the sister was harassed. May He grant us the ability to act in accordance with that which we learn so that it will be an evidence for us and not against us.


And Allah knows best.
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-1 Abu Ilyas 2010-07-08 06:01 #
بوركتَ يا أبا عبد الله لكلامك المفيد.
أ أنت سلفي؟
لا أريد من سؤالي هذا التباغضَ بين أهل الحق فلا تؤاخذني له.
السلام عليكم
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-1 umm rudwan 2010-07-09 12:57 #
Salaam to everyone. The problem in my view is the un-islamic upbringing, and bad manners in general. It's natural to glance fleetingly at someone who crosses your path, but it's really unnatural to OGLE. To all mothers Muslim or otherwise teach both boys and girls about Islamic manners and how to behave in public, not just the girls. Two years ago my uncle and his two daughters were performing Umrah, and when my uncle needed to buy something from the shops, the hotel employee in reception advised him not to leave his daughters by themselves in their room.
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0 Ridwan Habli 2010-07-18 12:47 #
This text is rich in vocabulary ant it's very good written !!
thanx Saudi life for this blog !
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+3 Reem 2010-07-20 13:46 #
"A woman that goes out PROPERLY dressed WITHOUT a pressing need and gets harassed is blameworthy"

...

What the *$*@(?

Wow,

women are supposed to stay put, stay at home, never leave unless there is a pressing need...?

That's.......sad.

Abu Abdullah, you are NOT a woman. I don't want to start throwing around terms like 'misogynist', but the more you clamp down on women's rights in this country, the more extremists the views will be of those who want to 'liberate' her. The more you do not allocate the same rights that you would to a man, the more out of touch you are with the view of woman as a human being. Who are you to tell the rest of us what the 'correct understanding' is, anyway?

I submit to Allah, but I do not submit to a male-dominated interpretation of my religion. Just because men here are jealous freaks, with low self-esteem and trust issues, doesn't mean that I am going to submit to their will.

Seriously, this is too claustrophobic and depressing. It depresses me that in this country, a man can have the right to sell his 10 year old daughter to an 80 year old man and take her dowry, that this is ACCEPTABLE. But for a woman to enjoy the nature that God gave us, is unacceptable (according to your view, I cannot leave my home to go SCUBA diving if I wanted to. What exclusive right does a man have to enjoy Allah's creation?).

It depresses me that women and girls are constantly beaten by their fathers, for NO justifiable reason (as if beating women and children can be made justifiable) (check out the latest story: http://www.al-madina.com/node/256350).

Really, I don't think the God I worship would want us to keep our faith from letting us progress as human beings. Otherwise, I'm sorry, but the more men in general defend constricting rights and freedoms for women, the more we lose the younger generation to secular humanists.
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0 Sis in Islaam 2010-07-20 14:41 #
@Reem:
What is more sad is when someone claims to "submit to Allaah" but their words are all based on "what I think" or "what I feel." This is submitting to one's own desires and faulty thinking. True submission to Allaah must be based on KNOWLEDGE. Evidences from the Qur'aan and Sunnah have been presented, what did you present? We have examples from the Mothers of the Believers, see how they lived. How much do we really know about them and how much are we really striving to be like them? With the kind of mentality that we have nowadays, I'm sure we are all faaaaaar behind. But are we even striving? Or we just want to keep on following "what I think" and "what I feel?" Allaahu'l musta'an.
Correct understanding is based on preserved teachings, they're available if you're really seeking it. Don't let other ideologies and busted news and shortcomings of other Muslims (who don't act according to the correct teachings of Islaam) poison you slowly, thus you think that you have justified your position. Be careful of making statements and claims without sound knowledge as you may be well criticizing Allaah, the Prophet sallaah-Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam and Islaam itself. Bring forth your evidences from Allaah's revelation if you are truthful.
Sorry Sis, but please for the sake of Allaah, check where you stand with your Islaam. It's not even befitting for a Muslim to be using foul language (ok fine, you didn't say it alhamdulillaah! :)May Allaah pardon us for our shortcomings.
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0 Sis in Islaam 2010-07-21 12:57 #
Please forgive me if I offended anyone and may Allaah pardon our errors and misdeeds.
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+1 Reem 2010-11-07 10:44 #
بسم الله
It took me a long time to answer your comment without flying off the handle. This is my first attempt.

First off, Sis, you have no right to question my faith. I don't care where you come from or how much you've memorized the Quran, you still have no right to question my faith. That is a conversation stopper right there.

Second off, I can think and feel and still embrace my religion. Posing "Holier than thou" attitudes in a debate does nothing to further it. When did rationality become antithetical to Muslim scholarship and thinking?

Third off, I am Saudi. I am Saudi in every sense of the word. I grew up all my life in Saudi Arabia, went to Saudi schools, graduated from a Saudi highschool which taught the SAUDI curriculum. So, when I speak or write, I am speaking and writing as a Muslim who abhors what Saudi Arabia has come to, from the judicial system to the political mess. I LIVE this. I have every right therefore to criticize it and talk about how my religion has been perverted for the sake of preserving some patriarchal, tribal system that has nothing to do with it.

Finally, I am an adult. Do not patronize me.

And by the way, this is me not flying off the handle.

Salam.
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0 Faraz 2010-07-21 09:18 #
OK... there's an important clarification needed here. I inquired from a student of knowledge regarding this. He said he has not come across statement of any scholar who says a woman is blameworthy for going out without a pressing need.

She would be blameworthy if the situation is such that there's danger outside and she goes out knowingly and falls into it...

Yes, Islam clearly says the primary place for a woman is at home. The "home ministry" is in her charge. So she should avoid going out a lot without need. Going out for permissible reasons is FINE. It can sometimes become recommended if she is going out for instance doing a good deed. It can also become disliked (makrooh) on other factors or haraam if she is going to places that are Haraam and to do things that are Haraam.

So, Wallahu A'lam, it would be INCORRECT to say "A woman with proper hijab is blameworthy for going out without a pressing need." Because she may have gone for something totally permissible. Here's Sheikh Saleh Al-Munajjid's answer on going out for halaal entertainment: www.islamqa.com/en/ref/6742/woman%20going%20out.

Also, check this excellent article: muslimmatters.org/2010/06/30/homely-homemaking-homebodies-why-the-quran-commands-muslim-women-stay-in-your-homes and please do read the full Tafseer of ibn katheer on the quoted verse. It's worth it to understand Islamic injunctions insha Allah.
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0 Faraz 2010-07-21 09:20 #
Actually this is a question I too had. However, I trust Abu Abdullah didn't mean that. Yes, as Muslims, we do alhamdulillah submit to Islam's rulings. So, it would be much more beneficial for us, if we approach matters that we don't know about in a proper manner, i.e., in the manner of learning.

"OK... this is a thing I don't understand, or I don't know, let's ask and find out what the Islamic ruling is." The intention is to learn about Islam to practice it. When it comes to the media, the way they portray it ...u know what happens. For instance, if a man in the west rapes a child, the media won't pull Christianity into it. But if a Saudi girl is forced into a marriage or even raped, the media will bring Islam into it and blame "strict interpretations " or the Muslim society's culture, though Islam has nothing to do with it. Forced marriage is Haraam in Islam.

Moreover, when righteous scholars say that a man should do such and such and a woman should do such and such, we need to see what they are basing themselves upon. Scholars on the Qur'an and Sunnah do not at all speak "their interpretations ". Rather they seek how an issue was explained by the Prophet and understood by the companions. The seek the original understanding, not their own personal understanding. This is what Islam is all about. We try to find out what Allah intends and what the ruling of Allah is, and we submit to it. Islam has no space for personal opinions.

This may be confusing for non-Muslims... but Islam is a way of life. And Muslims may go into detail about small things too, to know Islamic guidance on it, and to follow it.
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0 Sis in Islaam 2010-07-21 10:17 #
Alhamdulillaah. Jazaaka'Allaahu khayraa for clarifying the different points.
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0 Faraz 2010-07-21 09:28 #
That Muslimmatters article really puts this issue in perspective and lists out the different situations -- from obligatory to permissible ones -- where a woman goes out...
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0 Abu ilyas 2010-07-25 06:43 #
As salamu alaykum
Sister Reem,
As far as I know, if a woman goes scuba diving she would need to wear tight clothes that outline her mafaatin, which is undoubtedly impermissible.
As for your statement on child marriage, I would like to remind you of the marriage of Rasulullah صلى الله عليه و سلم to Aisha رضي الله عنها. Obviously what some Muslims may do today is not correct, but if the spouses are in agreement and the wife is mentally, psychologically , and physically fit, then what's the harm if she is only 15 or 16 at marriage? People mature at different paces and have different levels of shahwah (desire). Plus, to add to the subject of the article, a lot of these problems in society emerge when correct Islamic marriage is delayed.
وفقنا الله و إياك
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0 Faraz 2010-07-25 09:08 #
Abu Ilyas... please do not give any Fatwas on what is and what is not permissible. This is only for the scholars.
It can be debated otherway round too. It can be said it is permissible as all worldly things are permissible unless there is a proof for its impermissibilit y.
Scuba diving is no different... How do we know there can't be dresses that can be right. How do we know that this can be a sisters-only affair etc etc.... i know i've seen the video of a saudi female doctor who loves scuba diving, she made her own dress... that had loose overdress stuck with the normal scuba diving dress.
One of the things we need to refrain from is putting ourselves forward in giving fatwas while we are not qualified to do so.
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0 Abu ilyas 2010-07-25 14:11 #
Assalamu alaykum
Faraz,
I think there was a misunderstandin g. I didn't mean to say scuba diving was impermissible, I meant that wearing clothes that outline one's awrah are impermissible, which I'm sure you don't need a speficic fatwa to state such a thing as it has now become common knowledge. Plus, from what I said in my previous statement, I only talked about what I already know about scuba diving, but if the sister can enjoy herself in a halal way, who am I to stop her?
I hope that clears up any misunderstandin g; I await your response.
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0 Faraz 2010-07-25 14:29 #
walaikum assalam wa rahmatullah Abu Ilyas,

Point taken sir.
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0 Abu ilyas 2010-07-25 14:16 #
Edit to my previous post: wearing clothes that outline the woman's mafaatin...
Instead of "wearing clothes that outline one's awrah".
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+2 Chevalier 2010-08-17 18:47 #
If I may, I’d like to contribute the opinion of a traveler.

The issue here seems to be about respect and societal tolerance. Men and women should treat each other respectfully, especially in public. In order to embrace a modest society, people should not tolerate men sexually harassing women (in any circumstances). Women should not have to walk around staring at the ground while men rudely gawk, shout, harass, and make unwelcome advances toward them. That type of behavior is inappropriate in any country.

Offending males (often youths from the sound of it) who act in such an unbecoming way should be called out and shamed/scolded for their behavior. Meaning, other men and women on the street/in the stores should reproach them for their actions, and regard them with disgust to express their displeasure. If enough individuals make it clear that harassing women is unacceptable, it will change their mentality (or in the very least, prevent the offenders from acting out in public, for fear of shame).

One of the best ways for this to happen is for the other men in the society (who are modest, honorable, and courteous) to set an example, by treating women with polite respect. If the majority of men are chivalrous gentlemen and act accordingly, they show the younger generations how they should be acting. These role models are not only admirable, but set a positive standard for society, by cultivating modesty and respect. If the people on the street/in public make it clear that they will not tolerate harassment and stand up to it when they encounter it, such distasteful incidents will become increasingly rare.

The responses of those who are upset by the way that women are harassed is very encouraging, and already reveals noble individuals who can foster this change.

Peace, safety, and blessings upon you all.
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0 Amina 2010-08-20 03:19 #
MANY A TIMES I HAVE BEEN STARED AT WEARING LOOSE CLOTHING AND ONLY MY FACE AND HANDS VISIBLE AS ALLAH ALMIGHTY SAID. AND YET VERY TIME I GO OUT BY SOME GUYS (NOT ALL) I'M 'UNDRESSED WITH THEIR EYES' I FEEL NO BETTER THAN A WOMEN CLAD IN BIKINI! ALLAH SAID FOR YOU TO LOWER YOUR GAZES YET ITS BECOME COMMON FOR MEN TO STARE AT ISLAMIC AND MODESTLY DRESSED WOMEN.ITS TIME THE SHEIKS STRESSED THE IMPORTANCE OF BOTH MUSLIM WOMEN AND MEN TO LOWER THEIR GAZES AND GUARD THEIR MODESTY, THERE IS SO MUCH PRESSURE ON WOMEN YET ALMOST NONE ON MEN!THE PERSON TO BLAME IS THE ONE COMMITTING THE SIN SO THE GUY STARING OR THE INDECENTLY DRESSED WOMEN, WHICH ONE ARE YOU?

SALAAM, ALLAH KNOWS BEST
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0 R 2010-09-08 16:17 #
covered or not, holy guidelines or not, I've been harassed the most in ME, having lived in over 9 diff countries, Egypt has been the worst followed by KSa ( very closely). apparently something is not quite right int hat society. I have always dressed modestly and followed rule of the land and covered where expected in a tent like abaya.. so irrespective of who's to blame. just comparing 10 diff countries the men in ksa and egypt seem to bethe most consumed with the opposite sex...

It's disgusting and indecent and i've usually noticed a long stare back , angry words or inextreme cases loud yelling , tight slap and unladylike behavior usually sets these morons right .. so try that.. shame them...luckily for me i'm not muslim, so i don't have to worry about gazing at idiot men, i usually walk looking down and minding my business but ont he first contact i have no issues looking them int he eye and calling out their behavior. basically the harassers are perverted cowards, so women of ksa try standing up to them. and mom's in KSa teach you sons respect for women.
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0 kt 2010-11-07 10:49 #
R What do you say to them? When a 30ish man in thobe kept staring at my little girl's butt in regular clothes, I ,in abaya, put my arm around her protectively and gave him an angry look. He did not seem chagrined at all. I wonder what would be the right thing to say to let them know that is disgusting and inappropriate.
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-1 Anebu 2010-09-25 12:19 #
This article is from AmericanBedu.com.

It is wrong to post an article without citing where you've taken it from.

That is plagiarism.

It is dishonest and haram.
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0 Saudi Life 2010-09-25 12:52 #
One Million Riyals if this article was plagiarized :-D!
You're mistaken Anebu. We don't lift articles. All material has been originally produced by Saudi Life writers.
We do not know if other websites have copied from us though... :-?
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0 Anebu 2010-09-25 13:30 #
Well, I don't have a million riyals, do you? :)

Ok, I'll take your word for it for now but I do recall reading this on American Bedu a while ago although the exact date escapes me. And American Bedu has been around a lot longer than Saudi Life.

It is Bedu's site incidentally that I found out about your site.

Allah knows best, I just wanted to remind you that if this article was lifted, it's wrong.

Take care.
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0 Anebu 2010-09-25 14:56 #
You know on second thought...

I want to apologize to Saudi Life if I am wrong. I do read a lot about Saudi so it is very possible I have confused the two sites. Perhaps I initially read this article here on Saudi Life and confused it with Bedu's site.

I will be more careful in the future before claiming someone has plagiarized.

Allah knows best.
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+1 muhajjirah 2010-10-09 15:49 #
asalaamalaiakum ..
just think about the verse for a minute 24:30, who does Allah address first when it comes to lowering the gaze? that's right, the brothers.there's wisdom in that.
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+1 Fatema 2010-10-25 12:20 #
The behavior of the perverted men in saudia was what made my life a living hell. I miss Saudia... I miss my friends... but Im glad I can step outside without having to take a boiling shower when I come back in. It was despicable the way they used to stare. I used to cover my face, and I think that played a HUGE part in how I was treated. I recommend women carry tasers and just zap the shit out of those creatures. Give them something worthwhile to remember.
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0 kt 2010-11-07 10:57 #
So sorry you had such an awful experience even though you were very covered. I don't know how some people don't see that sexual harassment is worse in SA. covering more and more doesn't fix the problem.
What do you think would happen if i zapped someone bothering my daughters? - or the 15 year boy in thobe who touched me (old enough to be his grandmother) in the grocery store?
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0 Sakeena1969 2012-01-01 18:47 #
I remember when I used to live in Egypt, how a friend of mine told me that she used to be fully covered with her children and some stranger would be staring and commenting in SA. I didn't realize that it was a common problem. When I lived in Egypt, no one really bothered me at all. I wear long hijab and abaya(plain ones). There would be brothers that would glance a normal glance, or not, they might even move out of your way or just wait till you pass by. This is a society where there are women that observe the hijab and jilbab,or just the hijab or not at all. Allah knows best what will happen now will all the problems that Egypt is facing. Something is wrong when women feel constantly harassed when they go outside, whilst doing halal things like food shopping. What is happening to our islamic manners? What is happening to the men in societies like this where women cover mostly from head to toe? Certainly its not all men. We need to revive the sunnah in its entirety. It needs to be corrected. But how? Maybe the country can take an initiative or a campaign on this to help. Maybe enforce some social laws on harassment. This can also help muslims all over the world, because media travels fast and affects everyone.
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